Thom Talks with . . . Jacob Soboroff

Jacob Soboroff EXPOSES Trump's Child Separation Policy

Donald Trump is threatening to bring back one of his most hated policies. Separating children from their families.

Jacob Soboroff joins Thom Hartmann to discuss a frightening documentary that looks back at Trump's family separation policy so we can know what to expect from Trump this time.

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VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Thom:
To start, give us an overview—the 30,000-foot perspective. What is this movie about, and why should people take an hour out of their evening tomorrow night to watch it?

Jacob Soboroff:
This film is about one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country. It covers the Republican-appointed judge who stopped former President Trump’s—and later President-elect Trump’s—family separation policy. This policy involved the deliberate and systematic separation of thousands of children from their parents for no other reason than to harm them.

This practice was called "torture" by Physicians for Human Rights, a Nobel Peace Prize-winning organization. The American Academy of Pediatrics labeled it "government-sanctioned child abuse." Personally, I’ve never seen anything like it, and I hope I never will again. It’s an episode many of us remember from that summer.

Errol Morris, the Oscar-winning director of this film, has crafted a story that looks back at this horrific time while also looking forward, warning us of the possibility of facing such policies again.

Thom:
One of the most compelling parts of the movie is the narrator. I’m sorry, I’m blanking on his name right now.

Jacob:
That’s Jonathan White from the Office of Refugee Resettlement.

Thom:
Tell us about him.

Jacob:
He’s truly an extraordinary individual. Jonathan White is a career civil servant who has dedicated his life to helping others. Like so many people who tried to stop this policy, he fought tooth and nail against it from its earliest days during the Trump Administration.

There were many career officials who stood alongside him, including people like Jeyen Sualog and James De La Cruz, who also did everything in their power to mitigate the harm caused. Ultimately, though, over 5,500 children endured trauma that will last a lifetime. Without the efforts of people like Jonathan White and his colleagues, the situation could have been far worse.

Errol Morris has an incredible talent for storytelling. He’s done it before with The Fog of War, The Unknown Known, and The Thin Blue Line. In this film, he’s done something I could never do myself: he’s taken this story and put it on the big screen, capturing the emotional truth of what we all went through during that time.

The film reminds us of the universal condemnation of this policy. Even the Pope spoke out against it. This backlash led to one of the rare policy reversals of the first Trump Administration. That reversal happened because of people like Jonathan White, who acted with the children’s best interests at heart, even as others in Washington clearly did not.

Thom:
Was it difficult to get civil servants to speak out for this film? Were they concerned about retribution, especially from Trump or Stephen Miller, if Trump returns to office?

Jacob:
It wasn’t easy. Errol spoke to dozens of people during the production of this movie, though only a fraction appear on camera. For example, Kirstjen Nielsen and Tom Homan showed up at the studio in Boston but left without giving an interview.

Those who did participate, including Jonathan White and other civil servants still in office today, did so at great personal and professional risk. They recognized the importance of standing up to the policy then and felt it was equally important to participate in this project now.

I’m so excited for everyone to see this tomorrow night on MSNBC.

Thom:
We’re speaking with Jacob Soboroff, the political and national correspondent for NBC News, author of Separated: Inside an American Tragedy, and executive producer of this extraordinary new film, airing tomorrow night at 9:00 PM Eastern (6:00 PM Pacific) on MSNBC.

Jacob, I’ve read conflicting reports about whether the Trump Administration is planning to reinstate the child separation policy. Some say Stephen Miller is pushing for it, while others insist it was a mistake. What’s the truth?

Jacob: When they say something, believe them. They’ve announced plans for the largest mass deportation policy in U.S. history. Mass deportation is essentially family separation by another name. It might not involve separating children from their parents at the border, but it will separate families in their homes, workplaces, and schools.

Even if they don’t resurrect the exact same policy, their new plans will cause similar harm. The signs were clear at the convention: those “Mass Deportation Now” banners. That’s family separation in action.

Thom:
What about resistance? There were people inside and outside the Trump Administration resisting this policy last time. Can we expect the same now?

Jacob:
This is a tough story to relive, but it’s also inspiring. The global condemnation of the policy wasn’t bipartisan; it was universal. Hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets, and even the Pope spoke out.

The film reminds us of the power of collective action. While it may feel like there’s too much going on to focus, this story demonstrates that people can—and did—make a difference. It was the universal outcry that forced the administration to reverse course on family separation.

This is a system that has existed under Democratic and Republican administrations, though the Trump Administration took it to an extreme. Now they’re talking about bringing it back under a different name.

Thom:
Thank you, Jacob Soboroff, for joining us.